Saturday, June 12, 2010

Re: [TheOptionClub.com] RE: [TheOptionanimal.com]

 

Ciby - 

Sorry to hear about your experience with "optionsanimal".  I've actually never heard of them, but I'm sure there are many like them around -- and the one thing that I like to ask myself about the 'experts' is the same question I have for psychics -- if you already know everything -- why charge for it..by definition, and options trader with consistent 80-100% profits doesn't need any money....much like a psychic should be able to bank millions at the horse track.

I think you're in the right place to learn a great deal about option trading here.  I've followed MCs GS trade, as well as other information he's shared...I agree with almost all of it, and my only disagreements are really based on my personal preferences.  I've also spent a fair amount of money on a variety of things options -- I prefer things with free trials to test the waters.  Some notable ones, I've had experience with (and this is just my opinion)

 - Options University :  
   Decent for beginners, good job at the greeks, and nuances of strategies.  After a few months, there is little left to learn in my opinion.

 - Condor Options : 
    This is an advisory service for trading condors.  What I actually like most about them was his in-depth view of volatility, mechanical trading   
    system, and audited returns.  He has a slightly different approach to adjusting condors, in that he stack one atop another.  Something I do
    not do myself, but it appears to work fine for him.  All historical trades on accessible once a member, so you can pull it into Excel, and "see"
    the system, and his approach.

 -  Dan Sheridan
    In my opinion one of the best resources.  I am a member of his community and have taken a few seminars of his at the CBOE.  He has a    
    different style of trading than others.  His focus is primarily risk-management for consistent monthly income.  I regret not joining his 
    community when I began my options trading - he has a very simplistic approach and does a really good job teaching others.  That said, as
    much as I like Dan, and the other mentors' it's the community that is most impressive.  He does a poor job selling his program - it's far more
    than he mentions when you inquire.  Each week has a packed agenda (4-5hrs a day of recorded content) ranging from videos of mentors 
    teaching others, to Vets day where the veteran traders discuss what's working for them, a portfolio class focusing on managing the portfolio
    of positions, a paper trader where live trades are place, adjusted and closed, as well a recorded content from trading groups around the 
    world.  And you get bi-weekly one-on-one mentoring with your trades, adjustment suggestions, etc...It's a very hands on active community.
    Anyway -- try it out first to see if it fits your style -- Options Safari is Free, CBOE content is Free....if you pay for the Calendar class
    he will deduct that cost from the mentoring if you choose to join (Advanced butterfly class is also good).   


I didn't mean to type a book here, but nothing bothers me more than people who take advantage of retail traders -- there is allot that can be learned from books as well:

McMillan, Cottle, Natenburg, Augen are a few - but most of them I found usefull only after getting a solid foundation...
        



On Sat, Jun 12, 2010 at 6:35 AM, ciby joseph <cibyjosephp@yahoo.com> wrote:
 

 
Dear optionclub members,
 
I share the same frustration of Jim about optionsanimal (see his mail below) based on my personal experience.
 
I enrolled with them two years ago when they were known as 'spreadtrader' or something like that. After lot of promises by someone called Ben, I shelled out good amount of money to enroll to learn Options Adjustments
 
However, they were after my money only and once they got money, there was any follow up and a few of my mails were unanswered. They promised to teach me Options Adjustments and nothing of that sort was done. They have some slides to tell theory but nothing in real life that worked. (You can get all that in a good options text book)
 
Later, due to some internal issues they renamed as 'optionsanimal' and continues their mission to make money for themselves
 
I don't think they have any 'market making' experience or anything that will qualify them as experts. They are not experts in options!
 
On the other hand, it seems that dansheridanmentoring.com seems to be great as some of the free internet articles and webcasts shows he (22 years experience in the trading pit makes a difference) really knows how to adjust options. I plan to erol for his advanced Calender programme, which costs just $1000 (vs $6000 I paid for options animal)
 
Learn from others mistakes - happy if someone learnt from my mistake
 
Regards
 
Ciby


--- On Fri, 6/11/10, Jim Ranum <amt2100@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Jim Ranum <amt2100@gmail.com>
Subject: RE: [TheOptionClub.com] Re: GS TRADE [was:How do you manage your Vega?]
To: OptionClub@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, June 11, 2010, 11:34 PM

 

Yeah, they soaked me for $6K. It is to this day, THE single biggest regret of my investing career. Losing $7K on a single Iron Condor didn't piss me off as bad as that $6K.

You can learn everything they teach for free and learn a LOT more just watching Sheridan's videos, again, for free.

Every time I even think of them, I get pissed. (that means really angry if you're not from the U.S.)

If their course had been about $500-$1000, it would be OK. TONS of crucial info they don't ever talk about.

That's my personal feelings and experience.

 

 

From: OptionClub@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:OptionClub@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of ciby joseph
Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2010 1:19 PM
To: OptionClub@yahoogro ups.com
Subject: Re: [TheOptionClub. com] Re: GS TRADE [was:How do you manage your Vega?]

 

 

Have you heard about 'spreadtrade. com' now also known as 'optionsanimal' .com

 

are they good?

 

Please share your views

 

Thanks

--- On Wed, 6/2/10, rvd <rvdidit@yahoo. com> wrote:


From: rvd <rvdidit@yahoo. com>
Subject: Re: [TheOptionClub. com] Re: GS TRADE [was:How do you manage your Vega?]
To: OptionClub@yahoogro ups.com
Date: Wednesday, June 2, 2010, 11:02 PM

 

Ahhs and Umms are something professionals should master to avoid, however they dont make someone not worth listening to.
 They are low on the list of professional public speaking technique.


--- On Wed, 6/2/10, Mike Cleveland <mikeandjody1996@ yahoo.com> wrote:


From: Mike Cleveland <mikeandjody1996@ yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [TheOptionClub. com] Re: GS TRADE [was:How do you manage your Vega?]
To: OptionClub@yahoogro ups.com
Date: Wednesday, June 2, 2010, 8:56 AM

 

I know next to nothing about options, and could not teach because my lack of knowledge. But I do know that when you teach a subject, any subject, it is important to be clear and not stammer around, or fill empty air with "uh uh uh" words. I'm sure you agree.

 

 

From: JP <jamesbparker999@ yahoo.co. uk>
To: OptionClub@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Wed, June 2, 2010 3:33:55 AM
Subject: [TheOptionClub. com] Re: GS TRADE [was:How do you manage your Vega?]

 

Mike ... sounds like there is an opportunity for you to step into the options education business ... it would be interesting to see how you applied your succesful 'teach me to fly' technique to the world of options .... why don't you pick an option topic and put together a presentation for us all ... cheers, James

--- In OptionClub@yahoogro ups.com, Mike Cleveland <mikeandjody1996@ ...> wrote:
>
> John Summa is difficult to understand as every other word is "uh"...sounds like a ...uh...Iron. ..uh Condor has four...uh... uh options uh that....uh. .uh...
>
> And he does not give refunds for any reason.
>
>
>
>
>
> ____________ _________ _________ __
> From: speedsam21 <SpeedySam21@ ...>
> To: OptionClub@yahoogro ups.com
> Sent: Tue, June 1, 2010 3:23:30 AM
> Subject: [TheOptionClub. com] Re: GS TRADE [was:How do you manage your Vega?]
>
>
> James,
> Thank you so much for sharing your info.
> This is very helpful.
>
> To those who are new to this group -
> Prior to my joining this group,
> I subscribed to an advisory service which employed multi-calendar strategy.
> In a market hiccup, the result was disastrous.
>
> I had a good understanding in option theory, but in practice,
> there were many nuances.
> Consistency in result eluded me.
>
> There are different ways to trade options.
> I had heard good comments about Dan Sheridan.
> Dan Kaufman of ThinkorSwim,
> John Summa of OptionsNerd,
> Mark Sebastian of Options911 provide good training.
>
> I had followed Michael's paper trade for 5 times.
> With different market environments, Michael was generous to provide
> commentary while providing tips to watch out for.
> Very quickly, I realized the gap in my knowledge.
> When Michael used the term 'scalp', I had to look for background info
> how it was done.
> I was usually 4-5 steps behind Michael.
>
> It was like attempting to cross a road where there was no traffic light,
> how do I judge the speed of the incoming traffic? 'market feel'
> Michael would be adjusting trades, questions from other group members
> come fast and I would be using TOS trying to understand the thinking behind them.
>
> Michael once said that the key is to 'learn to trade'.
> I found it to be true.
> As I followed the paper trades, and I re-studied the options strategies,
> I have a better understanding how options behaved in real time.
>
> For members' benefit, Michael used only end-of-day adjustments.
> Even in difficult market environments, Michael managed to come on top.
> I recalled only one incident that the trades resulted in a small loss.
>
> Please note that Michael mentioned that his trading profit is about $0.05 per contract.
> Check out his past comment about negative expectancy too.
>
> So, I followed Michael 5 paper trades,
> I re-read Charles Cottle's book,
> I watched John Summa and Mark Sebastian webinars,
> I began to find similarity in approach to risk and trade management.
> This could be because of their experience and success as market makers.
>
> It was hard work but, for me, it was a turning point toward 'consistency' .
>
> When Michael showed us GS trade, I ran my own paper trade to see how I fare.
> We all know how volatile the market was in May.
> Michael trade ended in profit, my trade ended with $500 in loss.
> I dug in Michael's past option gymnastics and ended up breaking even.
> So, it was 'consistency' .
>
> Michael has his own account to trade.
> But, we have been fortunate to have him assisted us on the side.
>
> So, for some of us who knows Michael, his comments are worth noting.
>
> Best regards,
> Sam
>
> - - - -
>
> --- In OptionClub@yahoogro ups.com, "JP" <jamesbparker999@> wrote:
> >
> > Sam .. the positive experience is an ability to dissect complex positions into simpler alternative equivalent positions ... that reveal embedded risks / opportunities .... that naturally lead to more logical position management / adjustments ... ultimately you have to do what works for you ... and this works for me .. Cheers, James
> >
> > --- In OptionClub@yahoogro ups.com, "speedsam21" <SpeedySam21@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Thank you Ricky for the 'Algorithm for Flattening Expiration Graphs'.
> > > I am looking at it.
> > >
> > >
> > > Thank you James for your comments.
> > > Previously, a poster mentioned that he went through Cottle's book a couple of times to soak in his method.
> > > I found it heavy-going too but I continued because what I learned from it helped me a lot.
> > >
> > > You seem to be familiar with his book and style.
> > > What was your positive experience that helped you understand his book better?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Sam
> > >
> > >
> > > - - -
> > >
> > > --- In OptionClub@yahoogro ups.com, Ricky Jimenez <rickyjim@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, 21 May 2010 15:31:12 -0000, "JP" <jamesbparker999@>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >Ricky
> > > > >
> > > > >Please don't take this as being in any way critical, but I disagree completely with you regarding Cottle's book [Options Trading: The Hidden Reallity] as it contains many examples of dissections and synthetically equivalent positions.
> > > > >
> > > > >Michael's positions frequently end up with 'guts' options that can easily be plotted on a risk graph, but not easily understood from the raw data unless you apply some form of dissction.
> > > > >
> > > > >For example in the preface to Cottle's book he asks: what amount of money is the most one can lose with the following position:
> > > > >
> > > > >QQQQ trading at 37.30
> > > > >36 strike call at $1.70
> > > > >39 strike put at $1.90
> > > > >
> > > > >A trader buys 10 lots of the 36c / 39p strangle for $3.60 ea.
> > > > >
> > > > >Have a go at answering without using a risk graph ..
> > > > >
> > > > >Cheers
> > > > >James
> > > > >
> > > > I agree, James that there are plenty of examples in the book but not
> > > > enough information how to go about using dissections to make money.
> > > > Buying or selling a box can simplify a position, but I need guidelines
> > > > on where to look for such opportunities and how they lead to profits.
> > > > I don't see why it is a virtue, not to draw a risk graph. Using the
> > > > mechanical table method I have shown before:
> > > >
> > > > 10*39p
> > > > 10*36c
> > > > Slope: -10 0 10
> > > > Payoff: 30 30
> > > > Profit: -6 -6
> > > > BE: 35.40 39.60
> > > >
> > > > so the minimum result is -6 in the interval [36,39].
> > > >
> > > > I did try to find use for one of Charles' ideas, decomposition in
> > > > terms of "baby butterflies" . After staring at his description for a
> > > > while, I saw that any position, in s region where strikes are at equal
> > > > distances, can be decomposed into a positive or negative whole number
> > > > of baby all put or all call flies. This becomes obvious if you
> > > > realize that a baby fly has the property that its expiration payoff is
> > > > the distance between strikes at its center and zero at its wings. I
> > > > thought that maybe I could buy a wide fly, say, and then sell off most
> > > > of the ATM babies as the underlying hit various strikes in between the
> > > > wings of the wide fly. But I soon found out that even with well
> > > > traded stocks like Google, ATM baby flies have very large bid/ask
> > > > spreads so I was not accumulating much credit by selling them.
> > > >
> > > > But if you can give me a hint as to where to look for the really
> > > > useful stuff in the book, I will try again. :-)
> > > >
> > >
> >
>



 



__._,_.___
Recent Activity:
The goal of TheOptionClub is to provide a forum for members to work together for the purpose of furthering our individual understanding option trading.  All messages and postings, and any materials circulated are provided for discussion and educational purposes only.  No statement contained in any materials from TheOptionClub should be considered a recommendation to buy or sell a security or to provide investment, legal or tax advice.  All investors are encouraged to consult a qualified professional before trading in any security.  Stock and option trading involves risk and is not suitable for most people.  There is no guarantee that any information provided is accurate and, may in fact, be wrong.  It is understood that the participants in TheOptionClub have varying backgrounds and degrees of experience in option trading, and that regardless of experience each member is considered a student.  As such, any information distributed through TheOptionClub should be considered with a critical mind and not relied upon as an authoritative source.

To unsubscribe from TheOptionClub, send an email to:
OptionClub-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
MARKETPLACE

Stay on top of your group activity without leaving the page you're on - Get the Yahoo! Toolbar now.

Get great advice about dogs and cats. Visit the Dog & Cat Answers Center.

Get real-time World Cup coverage on the Yahoo! Toolbar. Download now to win a signed team jersey!

.

__,_._,___
at

No comments:

Post a Comment