Friday, April 30, 2010

Re: [TheOptionClub.com] Re: Kurt Frankenberg's Radioactive Trading

 

Bravo, Chris!

On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 7:17 PM, TheOptionClub <chris@theoptionclub.com> wrote:
I see...

First, I do not support or oppose any particular options strategy or
trading strategy.  What I try to encourage is an intellectually honest
evaluation of strategies and trading methods.  What Kurt and I have
debated over the last few years is 1.) the synthetic equivalence of the
married put and the long call option, and 2.) the renaming or
mislabeling of established options strategies.  As a result of that
debate, Kurt has acknowledged the synthetic equivalence of the married
put / long call and has in later revisions of his "Blueprint" identified
each of his options positions with traditional naming conventions.

Kurt is still an advocate of his particular brand of married put.
Fine.  To each their own...

One aspect of what Kurt Frankenberg has done with his Radioactive
Trading plan that I have always applauded is the attention paid to risk
management.  That is the real foundation of what he is doing.  Not the
DITM married put.  In fact, if you watched this week's presentation I
highlighted the fact that these DITM married put positions carry a
rather low delta which may not be what you want if you're intent is to
get bullish.  But, I also addressed the idea that by using call options
instead of married puts it is important to avoid the temptation of
committing an equal amount of capital to the calls as you would the
married put which would result in becoming over leveraged.  That goes
back to risk management.

The last few months I have also had Charles Cottle the "Risk Doctor,"
John Summa, Ph.D., from OptionNerd, John Brasher from Call Writer,  Mark
Espy from Market Tamer, Mark Sebastian from Option911, and Dan Sheridan
speak to our group.  Dr. Summa trades options on futures, which I do
not.  I do not trade covered calls they way John Brasher trades them.  I
do not trade Mark Espy's "Wheel of Profit."  I don't perform weighted
vega calculations before opening calendar spreads as Mark Sebastian
encouraged.  I'm sure there are difference between the way Dan Sheridan
and I handle things.

What do these speakers and Kurt Frankenberg all have in common?

The commonality between each of these speakers is that they have
something to add to the debate.  A temptation that plagues retail
traders is the desire to follow a single messiah or a prophet.  The idea
that we can find "THE" course, "THE" mentoring program, "THE" one
missing ingredient to our success, often compels us to seek out and
follow a single voice...a single idea.  It's convenient, if nothing
else.  The trouble is that what works for one trader likely won't work
for another.

Why?

We're wired different.  Our lives our different.  We have different
needs, goals, aspirations, etc.  My life is very different than John
Brashers', or Dan Sheridan's, or Mark Sebastian's, etc.  I need to find
an approach that fits me, my personality, my lifestyle and schedule, my
financial goals and current capital structure, etc.

Kurt Frankenberg feels really, really good about owning stock that's
protected by a DITM put option.  I look at the position, see the low
delta in contrast to the definitively bullish trade bias and wouldn't
want the position in my account.  Looking at and trying to weight vegas
on calendar spreads would drive me batty.  I'm not suited to it.  Mark
Sebastian thinks we're all crazy if we don't!

Who's right?

That's why we have the open forum.  It's why I have an "open door"
policy when it comes to the presentations.  It may come as I surprise
but so far this year I have invited no one to speak to our group.  All
of this year's speakers have asked if they could speak to us.  I welcome
them when the do.

If I started censoring posts here so as to only allow posts that I
agreed with, this forum would die off.  It's presently the busiest
options trading discussion board on the Yahoo! Groups network and I
think it's probably one of the better ones on the Internet in general.
A  lot of different ideas get posted here, but that's what fuels the
debate and what makes for a robust education.

I also do very little to censor speakers, but I think that's why we're
fortunate with the number and the quality of presentations that we get.
The value is that a lot of ideas get laid on the table in front of us.
We are then free to discuss, debate, and study the merits of those
ideas.  Some people may find that a particular speaker resonates with
them and may want to pursue those ideas further.  Others may find that
very same speaker to be completely off putting.

I decided years ago that I'm not going to decide for anyone here what is
appropriate for them to see or hear.  I'm parent to only one person in
this world and she is not a member of this group...not yet, anyway.  The
rest of you need to decide for yourselves what makes sense in the
context of your life, your finances, your goals, etc.  I can help fill
the table before you with many ideas and trading concepts for you to
sample and consider.  They won't all be to your taste.  They may not be
to mine, either!  But then that's what makes all of this so interesting
to talk about.

Christopher Smith
TheOptionClub.com

--- In OptionClub@yahoogroups.com, "srj3inc" <faltu0@...>  wrote:
>
> that you invited him for a presentation where  once you were the one
who was opposing the view of the strategy. RAT is  nothing more than a
marketing gimmick of a long call was the point of  discussion.
>
> surprised that by inviting him, you  indirectly supported the
strategy.
>

------------------------------------

The goal of TheOptionClub is to provide a forum for members to work together for the purpose of furthering our individual understanding option trading.  All messages and postings, and any materials circulated are provided for discussion and educational purposes only.  No statement contained in any materials from TheOptionClub should be considered a recommendation to buy or sell a security or to provide investment, legal or tax advice.  All investors are encouraged to consult a qualified professional before trading in any security.  Stock and option trading involves risk and is not suitable for most people.  There is no guarantee that any information provided is accurate and, may in fact, be wrong.  It is understood that the participants in TheOptionClub have varying backgrounds and degrees of experience in option trading, and that regardless of experience each member is considered a student.  As such, any information distributed through TheOptionClub should be considered with a critical mind and not relied upon as an authoritative source.

__._,_.___
Recent Activity:
The goal of TheOptionClub is to provide a forum for members to work together for the purpose of furthering our individual understanding option trading.  All messages and postings, and any materials circulated are provided for discussion and educational purposes only.  No statement contained in any materials from TheOptionClub should be considered a recommendation to buy or sell a security or to provide investment, legal or tax advice.  All investors are encouraged to consult a qualified professional before trading in any security.  Stock and option trading involves risk and is not suitable for most people.  There is no guarantee that any information provided is accurate and, may in fact, be wrong.  It is understood that the participants in TheOptionClub have varying backgrounds and degrees of experience in option trading, and that regardless of experience each member is considered a student.  As such, any information distributed through TheOptionClub should be considered with a critical mind and not relied upon as an authoritative source.

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Re: [TheOptionClub.com] GS TRADE [was:How do you manage your Vega?]

 

Based on Michael's request, here is the risk graph for those who are following this thread:

0002 01-May-10_Vikas.jpg

Michael, your numbers are pretty accurate and exactly match those in the risk graph:

On the upside, max risk = $11 (above 170)
On the downside, max risk = $1011 (between 130 and 135)
Potential profit = $489 (between 145 and 165)
Theoretically unlimited profit below 135

Expiration break-even points = 142.54 and 170.04


On Sat, May 1, 2010 at 1:20 PM, mcatolico <mcatolico@mindspring.com> wrote:
 

Update 4/30/10

 

Okay huge selloff (GS down 15 to 145) proving Sam's prescience.  Volatility explodes as well. The trick here is to use the existing position and shift the risk profile. That measly little extra long 140 put unit proved more than enough to make this a decent move for the trade.

 

Adjustments -

Going to clean house on this first by converting everything to a 140/145/165/170 condor using some crazy strikes.

 

Opening position was:

+1 150c/-2 155c/+1 170c

+1 160p/-2 155p/-1 150p/+2 145p/+1 140p

 

Net credit: 2.26

 

To get to the condor add

-1 145c/-1 150c/+2 155c for 5.65 net credit

-2 145p/+1 150p/+2 155p/-1 160p/-1 165p for 16.15 net credit

 

As complicated as this may look, all I'm basically doing is unloading inventory and doing something of a guts condor all by taking advantage of the big IV spike.

 

This yields a condor

+1 140p/-1 145c/-1 165p/+1 170c

 

I also want to keep in the spirit of the trade by hanging on to the short delta forecast (which is working out so no reason to change course) and add some vega on the spike.

 

So add a put side ladder -1 145p/+1 135p/+1 130p for a net credit of $0.83

 

If I got all the plusses and minuses correct, the net end of day position is thus:

-1 145c/+1 170c

-1 165p/-1 145p/+1 140p/+1 135p/+1 130p

 

Net overall credit is $24.89

 

If someone wants to graph this it might become clearer how simple this position actually is. We've got the big condor with almost no upside risk and an extra put unit that is protection (or opportunity) for further selling and/or IV increase. There are multiple ways for this to become profitable: drift/bounce higher or  further jarring selloff are the biggest bonuses to the position. a mild drift lower can  be scrambled after but may pose the most threat. The trade as it stands makes 4.89 anywhere between 145-165 and loses no more than 0.11 above 170. On the downside would be 10.11 between 135-130 but has nothing but upside potential in the unlikely event that sachs collapses well below 115.

 

 

 

 

 

From: OptionClub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:OptionClub@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mcatolico
Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2010 11:39 PM


To: OptionClub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [TheOptionClub.com] GS TRADE [was:How do you manage your Vega?]

 




Update  4/29/10

 

GS continued higher through 160 today (despite all the doom and gloom about the firm). And IV drifted another couple points lower (take a look at the atm straddle to see how vega really got sapped today).

 

So the position needs some tweaking here to center it around the 160 strike.

 

Adjustment:

+1 155c/-2 160c/+1 170c $0.40 credit net on this unbalanced fly.

 

This nudges the body of the trade closer to and surrounding the atm (160) strike while retaining the extra downside units in case the Sam scenario returns.  For the most part the trade is vega negative (i.e. has positive decay) into a declining or flat implied volatility environment with an extra put unit should big  gap type event occur.

 

Brings the position to…

 

Net position:

+1 150c/-2 155c/+1 170c

+1 160p/-2 155p/-1 150p/+2 145p/+1 140p

 

Net credit: 2.26

 

 



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__._,_.___
Recent Activity:
The goal of TheOptionClub is to provide a forum for members to work together for the purpose of furthering our individual understanding option trading.  All messages and postings, and any materials circulated are provided for discussion and educational purposes only.  No statement contained in any materials from TheOptionClub should be considered a recommendation to buy or sell a security or to provide investment, legal or tax advice.  All investors are encouraged to consult a qualified professional before trading in any security.  Stock and option trading involves risk and is not suitable for most people.  There is no guarantee that any information provided is accurate and, may in fact, be wrong.  It is understood that the participants in TheOptionClub have varying backgrounds and degrees of experience in option trading, and that regardless of experience each member is considered a student.  As such, any information distributed through TheOptionClub should be considered with a critical mind and not relied upon as an authoritative source.

To unsubscribe from TheOptionClub, send an email to:
OptionClub-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
.

__,_._,___

Re: [ConservativeOptionStrategies] Re: Long-Term CC System update

 

Following link is the presentation (Delta Neutral) by TOS founder ...and will help you to have some idea in that regard..
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: qs42king4 <v82nr@yahoo.com>
To: ConservativeOptionStrategies@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, Apr 30, 2010 6:48 pm
Subject: [ConservativeOptionStrategies] Re: Long-Term CC System update

 


zmo,
i agree that gil's trading looks like death by a thousand cuts. could you provide some more details on your trades? what is the BP effect?

thanks,
v82nr

--- In ConservativeOptionStrategies@yahoogroups.com, zmostatabi@... wrote:
>
>
> The following is one of the account with applying almost delta neutral strategy with 30% rate of return(Annulized) since beginning 2010. There is some cash available as Dr Joe mentioned for adjutments to bring the position to neutral as the market moves up or down.
>
>
>
>
>
> Position Summaries
>
>
> Symbol
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> P/L Open
>
> P/L Day
>
> BP Effect
>
>
> AMD
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ($76.00)
>
> $2.00
>
> ($250.00)
>
>
> C
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> $625.50
>
> ($44.50)
>
> ($500.00)
>
>
> EGY
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ($250.00)
>
> ($2.00)
>
> $0.00
>
>
> FORC
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ($780.00)
>
> $5.00
>
> $0.00
>
>
> HL
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ($1,801.00)
>
> $28.50
>
> ($1,750.00)
>
>
> HOV
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> $562.00
>
> $20.00
>
> ($1,000.00)
>
>
> KGC
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ($263.00)
>
> $22.50
>
> $0.00
>
>
> MNX
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> $5,448.00
>
> ($32.00)
>
> ($47,500.00)
>
>
> QQQQ
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> $1,136.00
>
> $169.00
>
> $0.00
>
>
> SPY
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> $1,512.50
>
> $66.50
>
> ($13,000.00)
>
>
> Overall Totals
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> $6,114.00
>
> $235.00
>
> ($64,000.00)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> CASH
>
> $92,018.44
>
>
> BP ADJUSTMENT
>
> $0.00
>
>
> AVAILABLE DOLLARS
>
> $28,018.44
>
>
>
>
> 6000/64000 = 30%
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gilbert Arevalo <gilbert_arevalo@...>
> To: compoundstockearnings@yahoogroups.com
> Cc: ConservativeOptionStrategies@yahoogroups.com; CoveredCallFund-Mentoring@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Fri, Apr 23, 2010 7:48 am
> Subject: [ConservativeOptionStrategies] Long-Term CC System update
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I have been using strict stop-loss methods, since I first got stung - with the "Asian Contagion" in Fall '98. You are absolutely correct in that writing covered calls isn't your automatic ticket to success. Going for high premium gains - involves risk (shocking I know), and without solid sell rules. . .well Joe Hooper illustrated this remarkably.
>
> A 25% loss requires a 33.3% gain to get back even. A 50% loss takes a 100% gain to make up. A 75% loss takes a 300% gain to make up.
>
> Since 1998, I've cashed out of every downturn and I've been documented at my website, since Jan 2002. If you search my postings and related links, you will see that I again went fully to cash (once my positions stop out - stock purchase price minus option sell price - I go into my "wait-and-see" mode until the next market "bottom") by 10-SEP-2008, thereby avoiding the majority of the massive wave down.
>
> I began to fully enter back into market on 16-MAR-2009. Anyone can now follow every trade take advantage of mentoring now available free at my Y! Group -
>
> http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/CoveredCallFund-Mentoring/
>
> I'm not "smart", just prudent.
>
> G
>
>
> From: JoeS <joerew8@...>
> To: compoundstockearnings@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thu, April 22, 2010 11:43:01 AM
> Subject: compoundstockearnings Re: Long-Term CC System update
>
>
>
>
> If Joe Hooper could not keep his Covered Call Fund going and had to close it down, what makes you think you are smarter than Big Bald Joe? He makes his money from selling seminars, not investing in covered calls like he teaches. CC's work great in a rising or horizontal market. How much did you get slammed in the downturn?
>
> --- In compoundstockearnin gs@yahoogroups. com, Gilbert Arevalo <gilbert_arevalo@ ...> wrote:
> >
> > I did some research (sanity check) this morning on the very best long-term systems - including the #1 investment strategy as tracked by AAII (CANSLIM).
> >
> > IBD 100 index (since 05-May-2003) : +127.1%
> > versus S&P 500: +28%
> > Note: it had a 58.3% drawdown with the '08-'09 dump.
> >
> > "According to the American Association of Individual Investors (AAII), since January 1998, market portfolios
> > traded according to CANSLIM principles gained an average of 1,859.3%,
> > versus a gain of 23% in the S&P 500. . ." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAN_SLIM
> > Meanwhile, my CC Strategy since 1998 has gained 3500%.
> >
> > Compare the results from professional money management company:
> >
> > CANSLIM PC (Jan-2001-Feb- 2010): 215%
> > versus S&P 500: -4.6%
> > Note: it had just a 20% drawdown.
> >
> > This last investment program most closely resembles my CC Fund
> > approach, since it's "portfolio is a long-term growth vehicle that
> > invests in leading growth stocks as the market rises and scales to cash
> > to preserve gains during market declines."North Coast
> >
> > Compare Returns
> >
> > -CANSLIM PC- -KC PRO CC Fund- -S&P 500-
> > 2001 12.5% 16% (11.9%)
> > 2002 2.7% 1% (22.1%)
> > 2003 55.5% 120% 28.7%
> > 2004 31.5% 44% 10.9%
> > 2005 13.8% 76% 4.8%
> > 2006 10.1% 34% 15.5%
> > 2007 12.5% 12% 4.9%
> > 2008 (12.3%) 28% (37%)
> > 2009 10.0% (6%) 23.5%
> > 2010 (1.8%) (1.5%) 8%
> >
> > In conclusion, the above data re-affirms my long-term investment
> > methods remain on point - despite lackluster trailing 9-month results.
> > A) Risk: my 20% (max) drawdown is in keeping with CANSLIM PC
> > B) Return: my 1,062% gain bests PC's 215%.
> > C) Although both systems returns vary substantially from one year to
> > the next, staying the course grows your account exponentially - despite
> > the market's ups and downs.
> > D) Since Jan-2008 (through the market crash and return from the abyss)
> > my system has significantly out-performed growing 18.5% versus CANSLIM
> > PC's loss of 1.8%.
> > E) Drawdown: my DD during this period has been significantly muted
> > compared to the drop and rise from PC, which is still off it's highs.
> > F) 2010: Even though Q1 has seen a supposed market "correction" AND
> > has a YTD 8% gain - both these systems have under-performed.
> > G) Long-Term Systems: for the long-haul, this approach are still the most profitable for the individual investor.
> >
> > I'll leave you with a quote from the publisher of IBD who developed the
> > CANSLIM method - the #1 investing strategy, as independently tracked by
> > AAII.
> >
> > "90% of people in the stock market, professionals and amateurs alike, simply have not done enough homework." William J. O'Neil
> >
>

__._,_.___
Recent Activity:
.

__,_._,___

RE: [TheOptionClub.com] GS TRADE [was:How do you manage your Vega?]

 

Update 4/30/10

 

Okay huge selloff (GS down 15 to 145) proving Sam’s prescience.  Volatility explodes as well. The trick here is to use the existing position and shift the risk profile. That measly little extra long 140 put unit proved more than enough to make this a decent move for the trade.

 

Adjustments -

Going to clean house on this first by converting everything to a 140/145/165/170 condor using some crazy strikes.

 

Opening position was:

+1 150c/-2 155c/+1 170c

+1 160p/-2 155p/-1 150p/+2 145p/+1 140p

 

Net credit: 2.26

 

To get to the condor add

-1 145c/-1 150c/+2 155c for 5.65 net credit

-2 145p/+1 150p/+2 155p/-1 160p/-1 165p for 16.15 net credit

 

As complicated as this may look, all I’m basically doing is unloading inventory and doing something of a guts condor all by taking advantage of the big IV spike.

 

This yields a condor

+1 140p/-1 145c/-1 165p/+1 170c

 

I also want to keep in the spirit of the trade by hanging on to the short delta forecast (which is working out so no reason to change course) and add some vega on the spike.

 

So add a put side ladder -1 145p/+1 135p/+1 130p for a net credit of $0.83

 

If I got all the plusses and minuses correct, the net end of day position is thus:

-1 145c/+1 170c

-1 165p/-1 145p/+1 140p/+1 135p/+1 130p

 

Net overall credit is $24.89

 

If someone wants to graph this it might become clearer how simple this position actually is. We’ve got the big condor with almost no upside risk and an extra put unit that is protection (or opportunity) for further selling and/or IV increase. There are multiple ways for this to become profitable: drift/bounce higher or  further jarring selloff are the biggest bonuses to the position. a mild drift lower can  be scrambled after but may pose the most threat. The trade as it stands makes 4.89 anywhere between 145-165 and loses no more than 0.11 above 170. On the downside would be 10.11 between 135-130 but has nothing but upside potential in the unlikely event that sachs collapses well below 115.

 

 

 

 

 

From: OptionClub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:OptionClub@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mcatolico
Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2010 11:39 PM
To: OptionClub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [TheOptionClub.com] GS TRADE [was:How do you manage your Vega?]

 




Update  4/29/10

 

GS continued higher through 160 today (despite all the doom and gloom about the firm). And IV drifted another couple points lower (take a look at the atm straddle to see how vega really got sapped today).

 

So the position needs some tweaking here to center it around the 160 strike.

 

Adjustment:

+1 155c/-2 160c/+1 170c $0.40 credit net on this unbalanced fly.

 

This nudges the body of the trade closer to and surrounding the atm (160) strike while retaining the extra downside units in case the Sam scenario returns.  For the most part the trade is vega negative (i.e. has positive decay) into a declining or flat implied volatility environment with an extra put unit should big  gap type event occur.

 

Brings the position to…

 

Net position:

+1 150c/-2 155c/+1 170c

+1 160p/-2 155p/-1 150p/+2 145p/+1 140p

 

Net credit: 2.26

 

 



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Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
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__._,_.___
Recent Activity:
The goal of TheOptionClub is to provide a forum for members to work together for the purpose of furthering our individual understanding option trading.  All messages and postings, and any materials circulated are provided for discussion and educational purposes only.  No statement contained in any materials from TheOptionClub should be considered a recommendation to buy or sell a security or to provide investment, legal or tax advice.  All investors are encouraged to consult a qualified professional before trading in any security.  Stock and option trading involves risk and is not suitable for most people.  There is no guarantee that any information provided is accurate and, may in fact, be wrong.  It is understood that the participants in TheOptionClub have varying backgrounds and degrees of experience in option trading, and that regardless of experience each member is considered a student.  As such, any information distributed through TheOptionClub should be considered with a critical mind and not relied upon as an authoritative source.

To unsubscribe from TheOptionClub, send an email to:
OptionClub-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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[ConservativeOptionStrategies] Re: Long-Term CC System update

 



zmo,
i agree that gil's trading looks like death by a thousand cuts. could you provide some more details on your trades? what is the BP effect?

thanks,
v82nr

--- In ConservativeOptionStrategies@yahoogroups.com, zmostatabi@... wrote:
>
>
> The following is one of the account with applying almost delta neutral strategy with 30% rate of return(Annulized) since beginning 2010. There is some cash available as Dr Joe mentioned for adjutments to bring the position to neutral as the market moves up or down.
>
>
>
>
>
> Position Summaries
>
>
> Symbol
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> P/L Open
>
> P/L Day
>
> BP Effect
>
>
> AMD
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ($76.00)
>
> $2.00
>
> ($250.00)
>
>
> C
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> $625.50
>
> ($44.50)
>
> ($500.00)
>
>
> EGY
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ($250.00)
>
> ($2.00)
>
> $0.00
>
>
> FORC
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ($780.00)
>
> $5.00
>
> $0.00
>
>
> HL
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ($1,801.00)
>
> $28.50
>
> ($1,750.00)
>
>
> HOV
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> $562.00
>
> $20.00
>
> ($1,000.00)
>
>
> KGC
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ($263.00)
>
> $22.50
>
> $0.00
>
>
> MNX
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> $5,448.00
>
> ($32.00)
>
> ($47,500.00)
>
>
> QQQQ
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> $1,136.00
>
> $169.00
>
> $0.00
>
>
> SPY
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> $1,512.50
>
> $66.50
>
> ($13,000.00)
>
>
> Overall Totals
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> $6,114.00
>
> $235.00
>
> ($64,000.00)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> CASH
>
> $92,018.44
>
>
> BP ADJUSTMENT
>
> $0.00
>
>
> AVAILABLE DOLLARS
>
> $28,018.44
>
>
>
>
> 6000/64000 = 30%
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gilbert Arevalo <gilbert_arevalo@...>
> To: compoundstockearnings@yahoogroups.com
> Cc: ConservativeOptionStrategies@yahoogroups.com; CoveredCallFund-Mentoring@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Fri, Apr 23, 2010 7:48 am
> Subject: [ConservativeOptionStrategies] Long-Term CC System update
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I have been using strict stop-loss methods, since I first got stung - with the "Asian Contagion" in Fall '98. You are absolutely correct in that writing covered calls isn't your automatic ticket to success. Going for high premium gains - involves risk (shocking I know), and without solid sell rules. . .well Joe Hooper illustrated this remarkably.
>
> A 25% loss requires a 33.3% gain to get back even. A 50% loss takes a 100% gain to make up. A 75% loss takes a 300% gain to make up.
>
> Since 1998, I've cashed out of every downturn and I've been documented at my website, since Jan 2002. If you search my postings and related links, you will see that I again went fully to cash (once my positions stop out - stock purchase price minus option sell price - I go into my "wait-and-see" mode until the next market "bottom") by 10-SEP-2008, thereby avoiding the majority of the massive wave down.
>
> I began to fully enter back into market on 16-MAR-2009. Anyone can now follow every trade take advantage of mentoring now available free at my Y! Group -
>
> http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/CoveredCallFund-Mentoring/
>
> I'm not "smart", just prudent.
>
> G
>
>
> From: JoeS <joerew8@...>
> To: compoundstockearnings@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thu, April 22, 2010 11:43:01 AM
> Subject: compoundstockearnings Re: Long-Term CC System update
>
>
>
>
> If Joe Hooper could not keep his Covered Call Fund going and had to close it down, what makes you think you are smarter than Big Bald Joe? He makes his money from selling seminars, not investing in covered calls like he teaches. CC's work great in a rising or horizontal market. How much did you get slammed in the downturn?
>
> --- In compoundstockearnin gs@yahoogroups. com, Gilbert Arevalo <gilbert_arevalo@ ...> wrote:
> >
> > I did some research (sanity check) this morning on the very best long-term systems - including the #1 investment strategy as tracked by AAII (CANSLIM).
> >
> > IBD 100 index (since 05-May-2003) : +127.1%
> > versus S&P 500: +28%
> > Note: it had a 58.3% drawdown with the '08-'09 dump.
> >
> > "According to the American Association of Individual Investors (AAII), since January 1998, market portfolios
> > traded according to CANSLIM principles gained an average of 1,859.3%,
> > versus a gain of 23% in the S&P 500. . ." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAN_SLIM
> > Meanwhile, my CC Strategy since 1998 has gained 3500%.
> >
> > Compare the results from professional money management company:
> >
> > CANSLIM PC (Jan-2001-Feb- 2010): 215%
> > versus S&P 500: -4.6%
> > Note: it had just a 20% drawdown.
> >
> > This last investment program most closely resembles my CC Fund
> > approach, since it's "portfolio is a long-term growth vehicle that
> > invests in leading growth stocks as the market rises and scales to cash
> > to preserve gains during market declines."North Coast
> >
> > Compare Returns
> >
> > -CANSLIM PC- -KC PRO CC Fund- -S&P 500-
> > 2001 12.5% 16% (11.9%)
> > 2002 2.7% 1% (22.1%)
> > 2003 55.5% 120% 28.7%
> > 2004 31.5% 44% 10.9%
> > 2005 13.8% 76% 4.8%
> > 2006 10.1% 34% 15.5%
> > 2007 12.5% 12% 4.9%
> > 2008 (12.3%) 28% (37%)
> > 2009 10.0% (6%) 23.5%
> > 2010 (1.8%) (1.5%) 8%
> >
> > In conclusion, the above data re-affirms my long-term investment
> > methods remain on point - despite lackluster trailing 9-month results.
> > A) Risk: my 20% (max) drawdown is in keeping with CANSLIM PC
> > B) Return: my 1,062% gain bests PC's 215%.
> > C) Although both systems returns vary substantially from one year to
> > the next, staying the course grows your account exponentially - despite
> > the market's ups and downs.
> > D) Since Jan-2008 (through the market crash and return from the abyss)
> > my system has significantly out-performed growing 18.5% versus CANSLIM
> > PC's loss of 1.8%.
> > E) Drawdown: my DD during this period has been significantly muted
> > compared to the drop and rise from PC, which is still off it's highs.
> > F) 2010: Even though Q1 has seen a supposed market "correction" AND
> > has a YTD 8% gain - both these systems have under-performed.
> > G) Long-Term Systems: for the long-haul, this approach are still the most profitable for the individual investor.
> >
> > I'll leave you with a quote from the publisher of IBD who developed the
> > CANSLIM method - the #1 investing strategy, as independently tracked by
> > AAII.
> >
> > "90% of people in the stock market, professionals and amateurs alike, simply have not done enough homework." William J. O'Neil
> >
>

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[TheOptionClub.com] Re: Kurt Frankenberg's Radioactive Trading

 

I see...

First, I do not support or oppose any particular options strategy or
trading strategy. What I try to encourage is an intellectually honest
evaluation of strategies and trading methods. What Kurt and I have
debated over the last few years is 1.) the synthetic equivalence of the
married put and the long call option, and 2.) the renaming or
mislabeling of established options strategies. As a result of that
debate, Kurt has acknowledged the synthetic equivalence of the married
put / long call and has in later revisions of his "Blueprint" identified
each of his options positions with traditional naming conventions.

Kurt is still an advocate of his particular brand of married put.
Fine. To each their own...

One aspect of what Kurt Frankenberg has done with his Radioactive
Trading plan that I have always applauded is the attention paid to risk
management. That is the real foundation of what he is doing. Not the
DITM married put. In fact, if you watched this week's presentation I
highlighted the fact that these DITM married put positions carry a
rather low delta which may not be what you want if you're intent is to
get bullish. But, I also addressed the idea that by using call options
instead of married puts it is important to avoid the temptation of
committing an equal amount of capital to the calls as you would the
married put which would result in becoming over leveraged. That goes
back to risk management.

The last few months I have also had Charles Cottle the "Risk Doctor,"
John Summa, Ph.D., from OptionNerd, John Brasher from Call Writer, Mark
Espy from Market Tamer, Mark Sebastian from Option911, and Dan Sheridan
speak to our group. Dr. Summa trades options on futures, which I do
not. I do not trade covered calls they way John Brasher trades them. I
do not trade Mark Espy's "Wheel of Profit." I don't perform weighted
vega calculations before opening calendar spreads as Mark Sebastian
encouraged. I'm sure there are difference between the way Dan Sheridan
and I handle things.

What do these speakers and Kurt Frankenberg all have in common?

The commonality between each of these speakers is that they have
something to add to the debate. A temptation that plagues retail
traders is the desire to follow a single messiah or a prophet. The idea
that we can find "THE" course, "THE" mentoring program, "THE" one
missing ingredient to our success, often compels us to seek out and
follow a single voice...a single idea. It's convenient, if nothing
else. The trouble is that what works for one trader likely won't work
for another.

Why?

We're wired different. Our lives our different. We have different
needs, goals, aspirations, etc. My life is very different than John
Brashers', or Dan Sheridan's, or Mark Sebastian's, etc. I need to find
an approach that fits me, my personality, my lifestyle and schedule, my
financial goals and current capital structure, etc.

Kurt Frankenberg feels really, really good about owning stock that's
protected by a DITM put option. I look at the position, see the low
delta in contrast to the definitively bullish trade bias and wouldn't
want the position in my account. Looking at and trying to weight vegas
on calendar spreads would drive me batty. I'm not suited to it. Mark
Sebastian thinks we're all crazy if we don't!

Who's right?

That's why we have the open forum. It's why I have an "open door"
policy when it comes to the presentations. It may come as I surprise
but so far this year I have invited no one to speak to our group. All
of this year's speakers have asked if they could speak to us. I welcome
them when the do.

If I started censoring posts here so as to only allow posts that I
agreed with, this forum would die off. It's presently the busiest
options trading discussion board on the Yahoo! Groups network and I
think it's probably one of the better ones on the Internet in general.
A lot of different ideas get posted here, but that's what fuels the
debate and what makes for a robust education.

I also do very little to censor speakers, but I think that's why we're
fortunate with the number and the quality of presentations that we get.
The value is that a lot of ideas get laid on the table in front of us.
We are then free to discuss, debate, and study the merits of those
ideas. Some people may find that a particular speaker resonates with
them and may want to pursue those ideas further. Others may find that
very same speaker to be completely off putting.

I decided years ago that I'm not going to decide for anyone here what is
appropriate for them to see or hear. I'm parent to only one person in
this world and she is not a member of this group...not yet, anyway. The
rest of you need to decide for yourselves what makes sense in the
context of your life, your finances, your goals, etc. I can help fill
the table before you with many ideas and trading concepts for you to
sample and consider. They won't all be to your taste. They may not be
to mine, either! But then that's what makes all of this so interesting
to talk about.

Christopher Smith
TheOptionClub.com

--- In OptionClub@yahoogroups.com, "srj3inc" <faltu0@...> wrote:
>
> that you invited him for a presentation where once you were the one
who was opposing the view of the strategy. RAT is nothing more than a
marketing gimmick of a long call was the point of discussion.
>
> surprised that by inviting him, you indirectly supported the
strategy.
>

__._,_.___
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The goal of TheOptionClub is to provide a forum for members to work together for the purpose of furthering our individual understanding option trading.  All messages and postings, and any materials circulated are provided for discussion and educational purposes only.  No statement contained in any materials from TheOptionClub should be considered a recommendation to buy or sell a security or to provide investment, legal or tax advice.  All investors are encouraged to consult a qualified professional before trading in any security.  Stock and option trading involves risk and is not suitable for most people.  There is no guarantee that any information provided is accurate and, may in fact, be wrong.  It is understood that the participants in TheOptionClub have varying backgrounds and degrees of experience in option trading, and that regardless of experience each member is considered a student.  As such, any information distributed through TheOptionClub should be considered with a critical mind and not relied upon as an authoritative source.

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