Option Trading Articles: June 2009

Tuesday, June 30, 2009

[TheOptionClub.com] Re: free software. Options mastery

Martin,

You're absolutely correct that there is no one course or book out there
that will deliver everything in the way of trading education. You might
as well look for a single course that will teach you everything there is
to know about life.

A trading education is never complete and it is true that trading is not
as easy as some educators would have you believe. I think folks get
themselves into trouble when they pick up a course or attend a seminar
and think that they can turn around and be trading successfully in a
matter of days.

Christopher Smith
TheOptionClub.com

--- In OptionClub@yahoogroups.com, "janzen257" <yahoo.to.mj257@...>
wrote:
>
> --- In OptionClub@yahoogroups.com, "Rob Hansen" robhansen5252@
> wrote:
> > [I]n all seriousness, I was reading a lot of the responses and began
> feeling very sad. Yes, sad for the circumstances a lot of these people
> find themselves in, but more sad that they think that THIS options
> course or THAT option course will make them FREE.
>
> Well put, Rob. I followed your link and read a few posts at random,
and
> they really are sad. Retirees whose nest eggs blew up last fall,
single
> moms down to their last $500, folks with horrible disabilities, no
doubt
> a handful of Bernie Madoff's former clients...
>
> My own circumstances are nowhere near as dire, but I'll admit to the
> same impulse, wanting to find the Holy Grail that makes it all come
> together at once. But you're absolutely right: no one course or book
or
> video is the answer. Not OU, not David V., not Optionetics, not TOC.
> (I hear good things about Dan S., though! :-)
>
> It's not easy, and I'm no longer convinced it's for everyone. I did
the
> Optionetics two-day course years ago, and came out of it all enthused,
> raving about options to anyone who would sit still long enough. Made
> some money, lost some. Went back to their course a couple of years
> later (they let you re-attend for free), and realized how much I
really
> didn't know when I first walked out of there. And I'm sure I'll look
> back in a couple more years and say the same thing about myself today.
>
> That's not to pick on Optionetics. It was a terrific kick-start; very
> motivational. And they have some excellent instructors, from whom
I've
> learned a great deal. But no one's going to turn you into an
> experienced, professional, consistently profitable trader overnight,
or
> even in two days.
>
> While browsing my local bookstore the other day, I found a short book
> called "The Dip
>
<http://www.amazon.com/Dip-Little-Book-Teaches-Stick/dp/1591841666/ref=s\
\
> r_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1246425565&sr=8-1> ", which talks about
what
> happens when you've burned through your early rush of enthusiasm, then
> find that there's a long, hard slog ahead of you before you reach the
> point where you become really good at something. Also flipped through
> "Outliers
>
<http://www.amazon.com/Outliers-Story-Success-Malcolm-Gladwell/dp/031601\
\
> 7922/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1246425492&sr=1-1> " and "The
Talent
> Code
>
<http://www.amazon.com/Talent-Code-Greatness-Born-Grown/dp/055380684X/re\
\
> f=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1246425471&sr=1-2> ", both of which
suggest
> that, in order to develop true world-class skill, it generally takes
> around 10,000 hours of concerted practice. Ouch.
>
> One way or another, I hope your fellow posters find the freedom
they're
> looking for.
>
> Martin
>

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[TheOptionClub.com] Re: free software. Options mastery

--- In OptionClub@yahoogroups.com, "janzen257" <yahoo.to.mj257@...> wrote:
>
> --- In OptionClub@yahoogroups.com, carmelo5791@ wrote:
> >
> > HaHa! Wow! You're hard-core!!Â That was very creative. I think you earned your free copy.
>
> Funny stuff! But are you sure they should encourage him??
>
> RFH, mate, you're worrying us. Please, get help. We'd hate to see you expire worthless...
90% of us do.

(Just following the "never can beat a pun to death too much or too hard" theme.

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[TheOptionClub.com] Re: Retirement Accounts

Oh, boy! You really want to open that can of worms?

This always seems to happen. Something goes awry and there's a call for more government oversight. Whatever action is taken by government tends to be an overreaction. Remember Sarbanes-Oxley? What's interesting is that this latest melt down was due in so small part to do government failures. So, who should regulate the regulators?

Oh, no... Here we go.

Christopher Smith
TheOptionClub.com

--- In OptionClub@yahoogroups.com, Jack Wigandt <nhhobbyfarmer@...> wrote:
>
> Chris & All,
> I do not want to go to far off topic and into politics, that is a differnt YHAOO group, but we need to be mindful of how thin the ice is under our constitutional rights. All that would be needed is a CON-CON, a constitutional convention and for a group of control happy government type to feed us the KOOLAIDE. After-all, it will be for our own good to put limits on the first amendment they will say and many will agree to allow the government more control. Perhaps we should prepare now to defend the first amendment and the constitution as a whole!
> Regards,
> Jack
>

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[TheOptionClub.com] Re: free software. Options mastery

--- In OptionClub@yahoogroups.com, "Rob Hansen" <robhansen5252@...> wrote:
> [I]n all seriousness, I was reading a lot of the responses and began feeling very sad. Yes, sad for the circumstances a lot of these people find themselves in, but more sad that they think that THIS options course or THAT option course will make them FREE.

Well put, Rob. I followed your link and read a few posts at random, and they really are sad. Retirees whose nest eggs blew up last fall, single moms down to their last $500, folks with horrible disabilities, no doubt a handful of Bernie Madoff's former clients...

My own circumstances are nowhere near as dire, but I'll admit to the same impulse, wanting to find the Holy Grail that makes it all come together at once. But you're absolutely right: no one course or book or video is the answer. Not OU, not David V., not Optionetics, not TOC. (I hear good things about Dan S., though! :-)

It's not easy, and I'm no longer convinced it's for everyone. I did the Optionetics two-day course years ago, and came out of it all enthused, raving about options to anyone who would sit still long enough. Made some money, lost some. Went back to their course a couple of years later (they let you re-attend for free), and realized how much I really didn't know when I first walked out of there. And I'm sure I'll look back in a couple more years and say the same thing about myself today.

That's not to pick on Optionetics. It was a terrific kick-start; very motivational. And they have some excellent instructors, from whom I've learned a great deal. But no one's going to turn you into an experienced, professional, consistently profitable trader overnight, or even in two days.

While browsing my local bookstore the other day, I found a short book called "The Dip ", which talks about what happens when you've burned through your early rush of enthusiasm, then find that there's a long, hard slog ahead of you before you reach the point where you become really good at something. Also flipped through "Outliers" and "The Talent Code", both of which suggest that, in order to develop true world-class skill, it generally takes around 10,000 hours of concerted practice. Ouch.

One way or another, I hope your fellow posters find the freedom they're looking for.

Martin

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[TheOptionClub.com] Re: free software. Options mastery

--- In OptionClub@yahoogroups.com, carmelo5791@... wrote:
>
> HaHa! Wow! You're hard-core!!Â That was very creative. I think you earned your free copy.

Funny stuff! But are you sure they should encourage him??

RFH, mate, you're worrying us. Please, get help. We'd hate to see you expire worthless...

Martin

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[TheOptionClub.com] Re: free software. Options mastery

--- In OptionClub@yahoogroups.com, "Christopher Smith" <chris@...> wrote:
> Ten bucks for McMillan's book? I think I paid something like $60 when I bought it a year or two ago. [...]

Yeah, I thought it was a typo at first; it's about $85 on Amazon right now. But the order went through just fine. If anyone's interested, you can try this link; else, start here and use the Search feature. Just be aware that it's definitely not a beginner's book.

> As far as the OU stuff [...]

Well, it sounds like you know these guys, Chris, and that's worth something. And hey, it's their stuff; they can package and market it any way they want, and good luck to them. Clearly the aggressive way they've chosen to go about it rubs some people the wrong way. Personally, I prefer the more laid-back, matter-of-fact approach used by, say, Dan Sheridan's company -- or TOC itself, for that matter. But that's how it goes.

Good of you to bring it to our attention, in any case. It'll be interesting to hear some feedback or reviews from those people who did sign up for this thing.

Martin

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[TheOptionClub.com] Re: free software. Options mastery

Thank you, Carmelo. Thank you, rvd. I'll take full responsibility for the content of that posting! But, in all seriousness, I was reading a lot of the responses and began feeling very sad. Yes, sad for the circumstances a lot of these people find themselves in, but more sad that they think that THIS options course or THAT option course will make them FREE. Financially free, emotionally free, free of their bosses, free of their jobs, free to become a financial philanthropist. But, come on all of you guys who have been doing this for a long time. It just ain't so. There is no holy grail. There is no magic system. There is just a lot of hard work, hard study, and hard decisions to be made on (sometimes) a split second. And don't forget a healthy dose of plain old luck. This stuff isn't easy, and so many of those postings gave me the feeling that, yea, if I get these DVD's, I'll be set for life. Just give me those disks! Gimme `em. I'll change my ways! I'll teach the world! I'll stop smoking! I'll (fill in the blank). I'm starting to ramble again.

Sincerely,
RFH

--- In OptionClub@yahoogroups.com, rvd <rvdidit@...> wrote:
>
> LOL, I agree, maybe you can sell that to a stand up comedian...?
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: "carmelo5791@..." <carmelo5791@...>
> To: OptionClub@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 3:30:32 PM
> Subject: Re: [TheOptionClub.com] Re: free software. Options mastery
>
>
>
>
> HaHa! Wow! You're hard-core!! That was very creative. I think you earned your free copy.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rob Hansen <robhansen5252@...>
> To: OptionClub@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tue, Jun 30, 2009 4:25 pm
> Subject: [TheOptionClub.com] Re: free software. Options mastery
>
>
>
>
>
> Well, I had to work all day and did manage to get to a computer to sign up for the free course. I made it as far as the screen where they wanted your credit card information, and I entered in all the numbers. I hit submit, it took a really long time, and ended up on a screen that said there was too much traffic and to try again later. I didn't want to hit the resubmit button for fear that my credit card would be charged more than once. So, that's how it goes.
>
> Also, I didn't get my reasons for wanting the course into the blog in time for the free advance giveaway, but after reading a lot of the entries, I still think mine was th
> e best and should have merited a free advance copy. It's on page 91, entry 902 and at one point compares options to sex. I just started to ramble onâ€¦.
>
> http://www.optionsu niversity. com/OMgiveaway/ blog/?page_ id=7&cp=91# comments
>
> It was fun while it lasted!
>
> RFH
>
> --- In OptionClub@yahoogro ups.com, rvd <rvdidit@ > wrote:
> >
> >
> > Sorry, I cant take it anymore.
> > These guys seem sooooo sleezy. I have already gotten spam related to this.
> > This last paragraph says "fair to all" but" no matter what happens I will win."
> >
> > I cant support this lack of integrity and ethics.
> >
> >
> > "Since we only have 1000 copies to 'give away'
> > we'd like to give EVERYONE at least a fair shot
> > at winning a copy of the Mastery Series. So we
> > are going to select TWO of the best responses
> > below and "Hold" a copy for you so that no
> > matter what happens Tuesday -- you win!"
> >
> >
> > ROSS
> >
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps!
>

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Re: [TheOptionClub.com] Re: Retirement Accounts

                             Chris & All,
                                              I do not want to go to far off topic and into politics, that is a differnt YHAOO group, but we need to be mindful of how thin the ice is under our constitutional rights. All that would be needed is a CON-CON, a constitutional convention and for a group of control happy government type to feed us the KOOLAIDE. After-all, it will be for our own good to put limits on the first amendment they will say and many will agree to allow the government more control. Perhaps we should prepare now to defend the first amendment and the constitution as a whole!
   Regards,
   Jack

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Re: [TheOptionClub.com] Re: Retirement Accounts

Chris. This is an old argument and the problem is the first is critical. It protects the good people and is used as a defense by the worst crooks. Wade Cook's defense was the first and he had two best selling books.

Some of the best educators fly under the regulatory radar. The potential problems going forward are that nobody will fly under the radar. If you charge for a service, advice or guidance you are currently already subject to somebody's regulation. I fear it's just gonna get worse
ISE educational presentations are now available via the iTunes Music Store. Visit Option Education @ Your Fingertips for free ISE podcasts. Sent from my Blackberry. Alex Jacobson ajacobson@ise.com. 1(917)2243711

From: OptionClub@yahoogroups.com
To: OptionClub@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue Jun 30 19:14:34 2009
Subject: [TheOptionClub.com] Re: Retirement Accounts

Interesting thought. In today's pro-regulation atmosphere I'm sure that
there is pressure to do many things. The one protection that
independent educators have had is their 1st Amendment right to free
speech. We'll have to see how that squares with big government's desire
to control more aspects of the financial industry.

Christopher Smith
TheOptionClub.com

--- In OptionClub@yahoogroups.com, "Jacobson, Alex" <ajacobson@...>
wrote:
>
> My other concern and this is premature at this point, but I suspect
the new investor protection proposals will pretty much put all the
independent educators out of business. Like the old independent MM or
local. They were almost all put out of business by the cost of
technology. I expect the education business that is not part of a
brokerage house or exchange will be regulated out of business. This will
consume the good and the bad
>
>
> ISE educational presentations are now available via the iTunes Music
Store. Visit Option Education @ Your Fingertips for free ISE podcasts.
Sent from my Blackberry. Alex Jacobson ajacobson@... 1(917)2243711
>
> ________________________________
> From: OptionClub@yahoogroups.com
> To: OptionClub@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tue Jun 30 17:55:14 2009
> Subject: [TheOptionClub.com] Re: Retirement Accounts
>
>
>
> Alex,
>
> Thanks for the information. My impression is that brokers with legacy
> computer systems have more difficulty and that the new guys like TOS
and
> OX have a significant edge because their systems are built from the
> ground up to margin options positions. I imagine the trustee has to
> take that infrastructure into consideration.
>
> Also, I agree with and will your thoughts about paid educational
> services. I would be cautious about going out-of-pocket any
significant
> sum for training that is to be delivered over a period of months or
> systems that require proprietary data feeds. Times are tough and there
> is a lot of competition in this market space. My personal opinion is
> that the high priced hotel seminar model is likely no longer viable in
> the long term, with that upper end of the market shift to more
> personalized mentoring. It's just hard to justify spending $3,000 for
a
> two-day seminar when for $6,500 you can train with a guy like Dan
> Sheridan. When you consider that some of the outfits have been
charging
> total cost of $20,000+ to work through their full curriculum, that
> $6,500 begins looking cheap.
>
> Christopher Smith
> TheOptionClub.com
>
> --- In
OptionClub@yahoogroups.com<mailto:OptionClub%40yahoogroups.com>,
"Jacobson, Alex" ajacobson@
> wrote:
> >
> > There are two issues with all option trading in retirement accounts.
> First there is no legal restriction on any strategy or product in any
> form of retirement accounts. Cash products, options and even futures
are
> legal as long as the strategy or exiting the strategy does not require
> the account to borrow. So the strategy needs to be well capitalized.
So
> there has been lots of discussing of spread trading and cash secured
put
> trading as being allowed. This is true, but bear in mind if you lift a
> leg the brokerage house either will stop you or automatically lift the
> other leg. Cash secured puts are common, but again keep in mind when
you
> de leverage the put it is simply the same economics as the covered
call
> with fewer entry positions. Not necessarily less exit positions
> > The second issue with retirement accounts is that there is also a
> trustee for the account and this is where things can get sticky. In
some
> cases the brokerage has uses an arms length in house trustee or uses
and
> outside trustee. The trustee can also set standards which may or may
not
> align with the brokerage houses ambitions. This trustee relationship
is
> often where the strategy restrictions may reside. Some years back a
> Chicago based trustee that allowed futures in IRAs actually failed due
> to fraud - not the strategies just simple fraud. It is not uncommon
> that the restriction comes from the trustee. Is on outside trustee
> better or worse - who knows we could debate forever. Many argue that
if
> your IRA exceeds SIPC protection and outside trustee could be a good
> idea
> >
> > On another topic and just a personal cautionary note. This is
proving
> to be a very difficult time for many of the paid educational services.
I
> would expect to see a ton of free deals and a major increase in
> advertising and offers, probably even more consolidation. IMHO and
this
> is my personal opinion only I would be very cautious here of prepaying
> and extended education program or buying anything that requires lot's
of
> ongoing support with a really good sense that the vendor has a viable
> balance sheet. These are tough times in the paid educations business
and
> IMHO we will see fewer players on the other side of the current
economic
> environment.
> > Good trading
> >
> >
> > ISE educational presentations are now available via the iTunes Music
> Store. Visit Option Education @ Your Fingertips for free ISE podcasts.
> Sent from my Blackberry. Alex Jacobson ajacobson@
> 1(917)2243711
> >
>

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