SEE Below
To: OptionClub@yahoogro
CC: advancedoptionstrat
From: adam.cell.phone@
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 10:40:28 -0700
Subject: Re: [TheOptionClub.
Tom --
--
Adam
This is a fascinating way to "monetize" the successful strategies, reward the developers and put meaningful stats out there for "apples to apples" comparisons. It seems like a great service from TS. I'll cut straight to my questions to be brief, but please don't take my questions as critical.
Of the various (36!) strategies you're selling, it's not obvious which one you recommend and the numbered names suggest versions. Perhaps I'm missing some key page of information to explain whatever conventions are used. Plus, it seems to be the same strategy applied to each underlying (eg. GOOG, AAPL, GS) so I'm curious to understand what (if any) adaptation is made to the study.
Adam, I'm not a broker so I think recommending anything would be a bad idea for me. But we do trade amny of these in house (based on the resources that we have available).
I have about 5 code types (structures) that I use and then I cut and paste from each of those as I develop a new strategy. So it would not be completely correct to say that they are the same. But there are certainly similarities. There is no page showing the conventions (wish that existed there). Maybe I can clarify:
GOOG Trades on a one minute chart
GOOG-1 Trades on a one minute chart
GOOG-5 Trades on a five minute chart
and so forth
GOOG MO can be used to trade 100 shares or more (MO stands for Mo Money)
GOOG can only be used to trade 100 shares
Notice the difference in subscription prices for these.
A PE designation means that the strategy can Pyramid up to 2000 shares of stock
If there is no PE designation then the strategy can only trade a specified amount of shares and can not Enter a new next trade until it exits an existing position. So under those conditions the strategy is either, Long, Short, or Flat.
Also, while you don't make any claims about performance, the earlier post in this thread claims "600%" (out of context, this doesn't mean much) but the performance of each of the studies is, taking Firebird GOOG for example, 23.98% after three months of trading. That's still a very tidy 80+ ARR -- not to be sniffed at.
Firebird GOOG has been trading well. I try not to make claims about % Returns but its hard not to sometimes. I'll leave the statement of results to those who are subscribing and trading it.
And finally, it seems that the strategies are trading shares, not options -- are there any strategies that trade options; and do the existing strategies trade long and short?
For now the Trade Station Strategy Network is set up to trade Stocks, Futures or Forex. I hear rumors about possibly developing the ability to trade options with automated systems in the future.
I guess I should also ask if there's a TS forum pertaining to this "strategy market."
Yes, I believe that there is a TS Forum, but I'm not sure how to access it. Will find out an post the info later, unless someone beats me to it.
Cheers,
Thx for the questions.
On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 9:38 AM, Tom Batchelor <tom_batchelor@hotmail.com > wrote:
Thanks I did see the release but thought it was only for current Trade Station clients.
http://www.stockhouse.com/News/ USReleasesDetail .aspx?n=7664997
Guess they are ready to take on new clients for this type of trading now too.
From: tom_batchelor@hotmail.com
To: optionclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [TheOptionClub.com] The Problem With Chasing GOOG
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 11:18:17 -0500
Fred,
How did you here about this; I though that they were keeping this very limited until it was launched for real. Were you part of the Beta Test?
I'm actually speaking about my strategies in DC in April; if you are available to come.
To: OptionClub@yahoogroups.com
From: fred.hawkins@edtinc.net
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 16:53:55 -0400
Subject: RE: [TheOptionClub.com] The Problem With Chasing GOOG
Rickey,
I trade stocks and options and you are right on about GOOG. FYI TradeStation just launched a new strategy network site where you can subscribe to automated trading systems. Although there seems to be forex, futures, and stock programs on there, the Goog program seems to be one of the best programs. I am not selling anything I just subscribed and have made a bunch of money. There are tons of programs on there. I think the Goog program I trade has made over 600% so far. The data is right there to verify. If you are interested, here is a link to the new TradeStation site.
https://strategynetwork.tradestatio click on view all strategies. Some are very good and some aren't. There are a bunch of them now. Apparently they just launched in March and are planning a big announcement in April. I trade the Firebird Goog program but there are many others too. I hate to sound like I am advertising but when you mentioned the Goog beta I started thinking about it. I thought only hedge funds had systems like this and a few off name sites but it looks like one of the big platforms stepped up and offered them. Does anyone know of any reputable platforms that do this? Any that trade options automated? I use Tradestation to trade options due to the low commissions per trade and TOS to analyze and adjust option positions. Probably crazy to have both but it works for me.n.com/StrategyNe tworkStore/ Default.aspx
Happy trading!
Fred
From: OptionClub@yahoogro
ups.com [mailto:OptionClub@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Ricky Jimenez
Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 11:35 AM
To: OptionClub
Subject: [TheOptionClub.com] The Problem With Chasing GOOG
GOOG has a beta of 1.08. But the reason it attracts both stock and
certain options traders, I think, has to do more with its volume and
for options, the ratio, strike distance / stock price = 10/545 =
.018. So a less than 2% move in the stock price can get you to
another strike. That is comparable to a 55 dollar stock with a big
volume and a strike distance of 1. IWM is the only one I can think of
off hand. Can anybody tell me if any available screener finds others?
However, taking advantage of that to make a profit by often adjusting
GOOG as it moves, requires quite a bit of skill, which I don't possess
currently, and I will show you the mixed results of my March paper
trade. I have reported on all but the last of these adjustments
before but I will repeat them for viewing convenience. I have also
attached a graph of all 6 trades. They are named by the date and
approximate GOOG price when the trade was made.
On 2/22 GOOG at 545:
-2*530p +2*540p +2*550c -2*560c, (6.30, 10, 9.50, 5.80).
Brown
On 2/25 GOOG at 521:
2*510p -2*520p, (6.90, 10.50);
2*540c -4*550c +2*560c, (4.80, 2.65, 1.50).
Result: 2*510p -2*520p -2*530p +2*540p +2*540c -2*550c.
Purple
On 3/04 GOOG at 565:
-2*510p +2*520p +2*530p, (.60, 1.10, 2.00).
Result: 2*540p +2*540c -2*550c.
Yellow
On 3/05 GOOG at 565:
-2*540p -2*560c +2*570c (2.00, 9.70, 5.20).
Result: 2*540c -2*550c -2*560c +2*570c
Green
On 3/10 GOOG at 575:
-2*540c +2*550c +2*560c -2*580c, (30.40, 21.70, 13.60, 3.40).
Result: 2*570c -2*580c.
Red
On 3/11 GOOG at 580:
-2*570c +4*580c -2*590c (17.70, 11.50, 6.70).
Result: 2*580c -2*590c.
Blue
After 3/11 GOOG fell back to the 560s and expired on 3/19 at about
560. After the last trade, I didn't see how to get back into the
sweet zone without taking on more risk so I simply gave up, knowing
that I wasn't going to lose much. Now it could be argued that on
3/10, translating the condor to the right could have been done with
little more expense than going to the bullish spread and the condor
was somehow objectively better. I wish I could quantify that. By the
way, each of these trades costs about $14 in fees and commissions at
Options House.
Perhaps the best trading philosophy to take is that once you have a
risk free or high reward to risk position, just don't touch it, even
if the market moves away. If you open several trades each month, and
turn each into a high reward to risk, chance will cause a few to end
up close to the max reward area and you will end up with a profit for
the month.
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--
Adam
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