Saturday, July 31, 2010

Re: [TheOptionClub.com] XLE Aug-Sep Gorilla Calendar

 

Why does a calendar spread lose money if the option volatility goes down? Here is a direct transcript from a webinars hosted by Dan Sheridan and Jim Bittman. The example on the screen is the Aug-Sep calendar spread in RTH, current price 80.28. August has 32 days left to expiration, and September has 60 days left to expiration. The August 80 calls are priced at $2.20 and the September 80 calls are priced at $3.20. Their example buys 10 spreads making the total investment $1,000.

Jim Bittman: "As expiration approaches, vegas (which is the sensitivity of the option to volatility) go down. So, the 60 day option (September in this example) has a larger sensitivity to volatility than the August option. So if volatility were to drop 5%, then the September option might go down 10 cents for each volatility point (which would be 50 cents) but the August option might only go down 3 cents for each vol point. So there would be a 2 cent difference for each vol point you are losing." Jim kinda got the math wrong here, but I'm sure you get the idea.

In the example on the screen, the vega for the September option is 12.9, and the vega for August is 9.44. So they go on to describe what would happen with each one point drop in vega. September would go from 3.20 to 3.08, and August would go from 2.20 to 2.10. So you lose more in your long position than you gain in the short position.

Thought this might help some volatility deprived readers.

RFH

--- In OptionClub@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Sebastian" <mark@...> wrote:
>
> I know I have said this before but, one of the most common misconceptions
> about calendars is how they react to changes in IV, and when the best time
> to enter them is. I will be interested to see how the XLE calendar goes as
> well, my hope, it's a home run. That said, with Aug vol trading at almost
> 2% below Sep, I am not in love with the conditions in which you placed this
> time spread.
>
>
>
> -Mark
>
>
>
> From: OptionClub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:OptionClub@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of William Fletcher
> Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2010 9:09 AM
> To: optionclub@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [TheOptionClub.com] XLE Aug-Sep Gorilla Calendar
>
>
>
>
>
> It is of interest to me. I put an XLE calendar on on 7/13. My high
> breakeven is $55 and it is at $54.31. I have a couple of others like that -
> DIA and OEX - close to or at resistance and waiting for a pullback. My
> guess is you entered at a better iV, but you are entering about at the end
> of what I consider my entry window. It will be interesting to see.
>
>
>
> The beige book is due out today, which may back off the price a bit and
> raise the iV on my positions to help me out a bit.
>
>
>
> Keep me posted.
>
>
>
> Bill
>
> _____
>
> To: OptionClub@yahoogroups.com
> From: robhansen5252@...
> Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 04:57:22 +0000
> Subject: [TheOptionClub.com] XLE Aug-Sep Gorilla Calendar
>
>
>
> Hi. I opened up a "gorrilla calendar" time spread in XLE on Tuesday. I know
> that on occasion, this forum has tracked various options strategies, trades
> and adjustments both theoretically as paper trades and in real time. If
> there is any interest, I'd be happy to report the particulars of the trade,
> profit goals, adjustments, etc. as they occur. Of course if there are any
> differing opinions as to how to handle the inevitable scenarios between now
> and August expiration, they can be debated. Could this possibly be a
> learning experience?
>
> RFH
>
>
>
>
>
> _____
>
> Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your
> inbox. See how.
> <http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:
> WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_2>
>

__._,_.___
Recent Activity:
The goal of TheOptionClub is to provide a forum for members to work together for the purpose of furthering our individual understanding option trading.  All messages and postings, and any materials circulated are provided for discussion and educational purposes only.  No statement contained in any materials from TheOptionClub should be considered a recommendation to buy or sell a security or to provide investment, legal or tax advice.  All investors are encouraged to consult a qualified professional before trading in any security.  Stock and option trading involves risk and is not suitable for most people.  There is no guarantee that any information provided is accurate and, may in fact, be wrong.  It is understood that the participants in TheOptionClub have varying backgrounds and degrees of experience in option trading, and that regardless of experience each member is considered a student.  As such, any information distributed through TheOptionClub should be considered with a critical mind and not relied upon as an authoritative source.

To unsubscribe from TheOptionClub, send an email to:
OptionClub-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
.

__,_._,___

Re: [ConservativeOptionStrategies] TM spread

 

Anthony,

If the earnings are being released on 8/4, why did you buy a Sep/Oct calendar?

Also, the IV for Sep is 24.13% and Oct is 23.25%. Not much of a skew. 

If anything, after the earnings are announced, the vol crush may happen in both options and not making much money.

VK


From: Anthony Hills <brem1h@yahoo.com>
To: ConservativeOptionStrategies@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, July 30, 2010 12:03:57 PM
Subject: [ConservativeOptionStrategies] TM spread



I am trying this spread on TM.Just made $1400 on FSLR earnings the same way. TM earnings Aug 4th. Max risk 49 cents. Hopefully front months premium goes down and stock is stable.Copied this from Schwab trades so hope it reads well.


TM 10/16/2010 70.00 C
CALL TOYOTA MOTOR ADR F $70 EXP 10/16/10
CALL TOYOTA MOTOR ADR F $70 EXP 09/18/10
TM 09/18/2010 70.00 C
SymbolActionQuantityPriceTimingTime & Date (ET)
TM 10/16/2010 70.00 C Buy Calls to Open20  ContractsDebit $0.49 
(Applies to both legs)
Day Only 2:18 PM 07/30/2010
 Bought20$2.98
Settles on 08/02/2010
2:19 PM 07/30/2010
TM 09/18/2010 70.00 C Sell Calls to Open20  Contracts  2:18 PM 07/30/2010
 Sold20$2.50
Settles on 08/02/2010
2:19 PM 07/30/2010
Status:  CLOSED - FilledOrder #: 64465761 and 64465762
________________
Anthony Hills
Hills Motors/Hills Industries
4011 Pacific Blvd
San Mateo,CA 94403.
650 573 7425
Fax 650 573 8721



__._,_.___
Recent Activity:
MARKETPLACE

Get great advice about dogs and cats. Visit the Dog & Cat Answers Center.


Stay on top of your group activity without leaving the page you're on - Get the Yahoo! Toolbar now.


Hobbies & Activities Zone: Find others who share your passions! Explore new interests.

.

__,_._,___

[ConservativeOptionStrategies] Re: TM spread

 

Thanks for the heads-up.
The cost has changed since to .89 but max return is .92 with 48% probability according to chart and a relatively low IV, so other than the unknown and unpredictable earnings report, it looks like a decent trade.
Lou

--- In ConservativeOptionStrategies@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Hills <brem1h@...> wrote:
>
> I am trying this spread on TM.Just made $1400 on FSLR earnings the same way. TM earnings Aug 4th. Max risk 49 cents. Hopefully front months premium goes down and stock is stable.Copied this from Schwab trades so hope it reads well.
>
> TM 10/16/2010 70.00 CCALL TOYOTA MOTOR ADR F $70 EXP 10/16/10CALL TOYOTA MOTOR ADR F $70 EXP 09/18/10Get a Quote  TM 09/18/2010 70.00 CSymbolActionQuantityPriceTimingTime & Date (ET)TM 10/16/2010 70.00 C Buy Calls to Open20  ContractsDebit $0.49 
> (Applies to both legs)Day Only 2:18 PM 07/30/2010 Bought20$2.98Settles on 08/02/20102:19 PM 07/30/2010TM 09/18/2010 70.00 C Sell Calls to Open20  Contracts  2:18 PM 07/30/2010 Sold20$2.50Settles on 08/02/20102:19 PM 07/30/2010Status:  CLOSED - FilledOrder #: 64465761 and 64465762________________
>
> Anthony Hills
>
> Hills Motors/Hills Industries
>
> 4011 Pacific Blvd
>
> San Mateo,CA 94403.
>
> 650 573 7425
>
> Fax 650 573 8721
>

__._,_.___
Recent Activity:
MARKETPLACE

Hobbies & Activities Zone: Find others who share your passions! Explore new interests.


Get great advice about dogs and cats. Visit the Dog & Cat Answers Center.


Stay on top of your group activity without leaving the page you're on - Get the Yahoo! Toolbar now.

.

__,_._,___

[ConservativeOptionStrategies] TM simple calendar spread.

 

This is strictly an experiment on TM. I am hoping for an immediate collapse in front months sold  premium and then ride the decay up until about 1 or 2 weeks from expiration.FSLR trade was only AUG sold premium therefore a more immediate collapse in sold premium after earnings were released. TM trade is  longer term with a less volatile stock. I liquidated the FSLR trade after earnings because the stock looked weak and could move down big in a market selloff. Sorry about the messy looking Schwab quotes.It did not translate well to email.This is a more simple trade attempt after doing many 4 way double diagonals with limited success. I am looking for trades that have limited downside with potential high reward. I am staying away from trades that could lose big in a market crash which is always possible with Iran and N. Korea etc in the picture as well as a stumbling economy.

________________
Anthony Hills
Hills Motors/Hills Industries
4011 Pacific Blvd
San Mateo,CA 94403.
650 573 7425
Fax 650 573 8721

__._,_.___
Recent Activity:
.

__,_._,___

Re: [TheOptionClub.com] XLE Aug-Sep Gorilla Calendar

 

Become stock subbroker/business partner with zero deposite.

invest limited......earn unlimited....

know, how can you earn in above six figures easily with us ....
No any investing..
training ,technical courses & all possible supports.

for detail u can go...bezelgroup.in.
contact person.....uday (+91 9570876601)


If you are a trader /investor .....open a D-mat account with us and get 
                                             lowest  brokarage in india  similar to .01 paise
                                             & 10 rs per lot in f&o equity and  commodity with
                                             fastest  terminal. 

--- On Fri, 30/7/10, RobertH <robhansen5252@hotmail.com> wrote:

From: RobertH <robhansen5252@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [TheOptionClub.com] XLE Aug-Sep Gorilla Calendar
To: OptionClub@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, 30 July, 2010, 6:13 AM

 

Thanks Mark. When I put the trade on, the IV of the short was 24.9% and the IV of the long was 25.9%. From what I have learned, you want that volatility skew to be between -2 and +2 unless you are specifically playing the vols due to an upcoming catalyst.

RFH

--- In OptionClub@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Sebastian" <mark@...> wrote:
>
> I know I have said this before but, one of the most common misconceptions
> about calendars is how they react to changes in IV, and when the best time
> to enter them is. I will be interested to see how the XLE calendar goes as
> well, my hope, it's a home run. That said, with Aug vol trading at almost
> 2% below Sep, I am not in love with the conditions in which you placed this
> time spread.
>
>
>
> -Mark
>
>
>
> From: OptionClub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:OptionClub@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of William Fletcher
> Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2010 9:09 AM
> To: optionclub@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [TheOptionClub.com] XLE Aug-Sep Gorilla Calendar
>
>
>
>
>
> It is of interest to me. I put an XLE calendar on on 7/13. My high
> breakeven is $55 and it is at $54.31. I have a couple of others like that -
> DIA and OEX - close to or at resistance and waiting for a pullback. My
> guess is you entered at a better iV, but you are entering about at the end
> of what I consider my entry window. It will be interesting to see.
>
>
>
> The beige book is due out today, which may back off the price a bit and
> raise the iV on my positions to help me out a bit.
>
>
>
> Keep me posted.
>
>
>
> Bill
>
> _____
>
> To: OptionClub@yahoogroups.com
> From: robhansen5252@...
> Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 04:57:22 +0000
> Subject: [TheOptionClub.com] XLE Aug-Sep Gorilla Calendar
>
>
>
> Hi. I opened up a "gorrilla calendar" time spread in XLE on Tuesday. I know
> that on occasion, this forum has tracked various options strategies, trades
> and adjustments both theoretically as paper trades and in real time. If
> there is any interest, I'd be happy to report the particulars of the trade,
> profit goals, adjustments, etc. as they occur. Of course if there are any
> differing opinions as to how to handle the inevitable scenarios between now
> and August expiration, they can be debated. Could this possibly be a
> learning experience?
>
> RFH
>
>
>
>
>
> _____
>
> Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your
> inbox. See how.
> <http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:
> WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_2>
>


__._,_.___
Recent Activity:
The goal of TheOptionClub is to provide a forum for members to work together for the purpose of furthering our individual understanding option trading.  All messages and postings, and any materials circulated are provided for discussion and educational purposes only.  No statement contained in any materials from TheOptionClub should be considered a recommendation to buy or sell a security or to provide investment, legal or tax advice.  All investors are encouraged to consult a qualified professional before trading in any security.  Stock and option trading involves risk and is not suitable for most people.  There is no guarantee that any information provided is accurate and, may in fact, be wrong.  It is understood that the participants in TheOptionClub have varying backgrounds and degrees of experience in option trading, and that regardless of experience each member is considered a student.  As such, any information distributed through TheOptionClub should be considered with a critical mind and not relied upon as an authoritative source.

To unsubscribe from TheOptionClub, send an email to:
OptionClub-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
MARKETPLACE

Hobbies & Activities Zone: Find others who share your passions! Explore new interests.


Get great advice about dogs and cats. Visit the Dog & Cat Answers Center.


Stay on top of your group activity without leaving the page you're on - Get the Yahoo! Toolbar now.

.

__,_._,___

Re: [TheOptionClub.com] Re: XLE Aug-Sep Gorilla Calendar

 

Become stock subbroker/business partner with zero deposite.

invest limited......earn unlimited....

know, how can you earn in above six figures easily with us ....
No any investing..
training ,technical courses & all possible supports.

for detail u can go...bezelgroup.in.
contact person.....uday (+91 9570876601)


If you are a trader /investor .....open a D-mat account with us and get 
                                             lowest  brokarage in india  similar to .01 paise
                                             & 10 rs per lot in f&o equity and  commodity with
                                             fastest  terminal. 

--- On Fri, 30/7/10, ciby joseph <cibyjosephp@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: ciby joseph <cibyjosephp@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [TheOptionClub.com] Re: XLE Aug-Sep Gorilla Calendar
To: OptionClub@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, 30 July, 2010, 12:40 PM

 

Thanks RFH. This is interesting. Aren't you checking delta of the position on a daily basis. By the way, have you created charts or just doing mathematical calculations?
 
Regards
 
Ciby
 

 


From: RobertH <robhansen5252@ hotmail.com>
To: OptionClub@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Thu, July 29, 2010 8:04:34 PM
Subject: [TheOptionClub. com] Re: XLE Aug-Sep Gorilla Calendar

 

On Tuesday, July 27, I opened an Aug – Sep calendar spread on XLE. I bought 20 Sep10_54c at 2.35 and sold 20 Aug10_54c at 1.67. The 0.68 debit translated to a cost of $1,360. Add $50.50 for commissions and my maximum loss is the amount I paid, or $1,440.50. This is a positive theta and positive vega position, so I benefit from the passage of time as well as increased volatility. Lately, I've been having success with butterflies which generally benefit from a decrease in volatility, but checking the implied volatility on a TOS chart, I noted that XLE was down in the lower third of the range for the last year. So since I'm not too experienced in calendar spreads, I thought I would give this one a try.

Break evens for this trade are 51.91 and 56.17. My plan is to scale into this trade (add another calendar converting it into a double calendar) if the underlying moves a lot in either direction, with an ultimate goal of $1,000 profit. So, I will invest up to $5,000 into this trade to make the $1,000. With this first position, a 20% profit after commissions translates to around $332. I'm not greedy, so if XLE stays where it is and my 20% goal is reached, I'll take it. In fact, I've put in a GTC order to sell calendar at that point. If XLE moves close to break even on either side, I'll add another 20 contract calendar and adjust my profit goal up to the new cost of the trade. If that happens and XLE continues in the same direction, I'll scale back half of the original 54 calendar and add a 10 contract calendar closer to the new price. If XLE whipsaws and goes back the other way, I'll add to the 54 calendar. I will continually keep track of the cost of the trade and adjust my profit goal accordingly.

I'm in my second day of the trade and nothing spectacular has happened yet. TOS says I am up around $90 at this moment, so I'll watch and wait.

Comments appreciated.

RFH

--- In OptionClub@yahoogro ups.com, "RobertH" <robhansen5252@ ...> wrote:
>
> Hi. I opened up a "gorrilla calendar" time spread in XLE on Tuesday. I know that on occasion, this forum has tracked various options strategies, trades and adjustments both theoretically as paper trades and in real time. If there is any interest, I'd be happy to report the particulars of the trade, profit goals, adjustments, etc. as they occur. Of course if there are any differing opinions as to how to handle the inevitable scenarios between now and August expiration, they can be debated. Could this possibly be a learning experience?
>
> RFH
>



__._,_.___
Recent Activity:
The goal of TheOptionClub is to provide a forum for members to work together for the purpose of furthering our individual understanding option trading.  All messages and postings, and any materials circulated are provided for discussion and educational purposes only.  No statement contained in any materials from TheOptionClub should be considered a recommendation to buy or sell a security or to provide investment, legal or tax advice.  All investors are encouraged to consult a qualified professional before trading in any security.  Stock and option trading involves risk and is not suitable for most people.  There is no guarantee that any information provided is accurate and, may in fact, be wrong.  It is understood that the participants in TheOptionClub have varying backgrounds and degrees of experience in option trading, and that regardless of experience each member is considered a student.  As such, any information distributed through TheOptionClub should be considered with a critical mind and not relied upon as an authoritative source.

To unsubscribe from TheOptionClub, send an email to:
OptionClub-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
MARKETPLACE

Hobbies & Activities Zone: Find others who share your passions! Explore new interests.


Get great advice about dogs and cats. Visit the Dog & Cat Answers Center.


Stay on top of your group activity without leaving the page you're on - Get the Yahoo! Toolbar now.

.

__,_._,___

RE: [TheOptionClub.com] XLE Aug-Sep Gorilla Calendar

 

Bill,

 

Vol of Vol is extremely high, that is one of the main drivers

 

Mark

 

From: OptionClub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:OptionClub@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of William Fletcher
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 1:29 PM
To: optionclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [TheOptionClub.com] XLE Aug-Sep Gorilla Calendar

 

 

Mark

 

What is is about the current market conditions that make a % or two of negative skew a problem?  Is it the gently declining vols, or are you thinking of something else?

 

Bill


To: OptionClub@yahoogroups.com
From: mark@option911.com
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 09:05:43 -0500
Subject: RE: [TheOptionClub.com] XLE Aug-Sep Gorilla Calendar

 

 

Whoever taught you to have a negative skew has probably not reevaluted dealing with calendars under current market conditions                                                                                                                                                          & nbsp;                                                                                              g problem

 

Generally, I would say a negative skew is going to be a big problem, defiantly over several months

 

From: OptionClub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:OptionClub@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of RobertH
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 1:14 AM
To: OptionClub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [TheOptionClub.com] XLE Aug-Sep Gorilla Calendar

 

 

Thanks Mark. When I put the trade on, the IV of the short was 24.9% and the IV of the long was 25.9%. From what I have learned, you want that volatility skew to be between -2 and +2 unless you are specifically playing the vols due to an upcoming catalyst.

RFH

--- In OptionClub@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Sebastian" <mark@...> wrote:
>
> I know I have said this before but, one of the most common misconceptions
> about calendars is how they react to changes in IV, and when the best time
> to enter them is. I will be interested to see how the XLE calendar goes as
> well, my hope, it's a home run. That said, with Aug vol trading at almost
> 2% below Sep, I am not in love with the conditions in which you placed this
> time spread.
>
>
>
> -Mark
>
>
>
> From: OptionClub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:OptionClub@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of William Fletcher
> Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2010 9:09 AM
> To: optionclub@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [TheOptionClub.com] XLE Aug-Sep Gorilla Calendar
>
>
>
>
>
> It is of interest to me. I put an XLE calendar on on 7/13. My high
> breakeven is $55 and it is at $54.31. I have a couple of others like that -
> DIA and OEX - close to or at resistance and waiting for a pullback. My
> guess is you entered at a better iV, but you are entering about at the end
> of what I consider my entry window. It will be interesting to see.
>
>
>
> The beige book is due out today, which may back off the price a bit and
> raise the iV on my positions to help me out a bit.
>
>
>
> Keep me posted.
>
>
>
> Bill
>
> _____
>
> To: OptionClub@yahoogroups.com
> From: robhansen5252@...
> Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 04:57:22 +0000
> Subject: [TheOptionClub.com] XLE Aug-Sep Gorilla Calendar
>
>
>
> Hi. I opened up a "gorrilla calendar" time spread in XLE on Tuesday. I know
> that on occasion, this forum has tracked various options strategies, trades
> and adjustments both theoretically as paper trades and in real time. If
> there is any interest, I'd be happy to report the particulars of the trade,
> profit goals, adjustments, etc. as they occur. Of course if there are any
> differing opinions as to how to handle the inevitable scenarios between now
> and August expiration, they can be debated. Could this possibly be a
> learning experience?
>
> RFH
>
>
>
>
>
> _____
>
> Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your
> inbox. See how.
> <http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:
> WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_2>
>

 

__._,_.___
Recent Activity:
The goal of TheOptionClub is to provide a forum for members to work together for the purpose of furthering our individual understanding option trading.  All messages and postings, and any materials circulated are provided for discussion and educational purposes only.  No statement contained in any materials from TheOptionClub should be considered a recommendation to buy or sell a security or to provide investment, legal or tax advice.  All investors are encouraged to consult a qualified professional before trading in any security.  Stock and option trading involves risk and is not suitable for most people.  There is no guarantee that any information provided is accurate and, may in fact, be wrong.  It is understood that the participants in TheOptionClub have varying backgrounds and degrees of experience in option trading, and that regardless of experience each member is considered a student.  As such, any information distributed through TheOptionClub should be considered with a critical mind and not relied upon as an authoritative source.

To unsubscribe from TheOptionClub, send an email to:
OptionClub-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
MARKETPLACE

Hobbies & Activities Zone: Find others who share your passions! Explore new interests.


Get great advice about dogs and cats. Visit the Dog & Cat Answers Center.


Stay on top of your group activity without leaving the page you're on - Get the Yahoo! Toolbar now.

.

__,_._,___